Tim's 1930 Model 19 Norton

Tim (see this Blog and this Blog) has finished another Norton project:

"Hereby a few shots of my 1930 Model 19, just finished yesterday and started second kick. Messed about with the carb and the tick-over and on retard it is unbelievably low due to new valve guides and a good carb slide. The engine is mechanically quiet as I have had the cams and followers built up and re profiled back to standard. Not too sure about the seat height, I think it could be set a bit lower. Still needs some work on the filler cap for the petrol tank, and the fuel pipe needs plating. I will wait a month before I ride it as we still have all the salt on the roads they put on for the winter. It looks like the magneto chain cover is a earlier one by the raised Norton letters on the casting will have to find the correct one."

When asking about the history of the Norton I got this story from Tim:
 
"A good story behind this bike; it's "Buyer Beware". I brought this bike from a friend who had purchased it from a well known Vintage Motor Cycle Club member who had supposedly restored it. My friend paid good money for this bike and when he got it home he could not start it. I had a look at it at the time and we found lots wrong with it. There was a crack in the back wheel drum and the kickstart had dropped off with all the kicking my mate had done. The gearbox kickstart boss was cracked, so we never got it going. My mate never touched it again for about 8 years and then he offered it to me. As I have a 1929 Model 18, I had a spare gearbox and had a batch of brake drums made and had one in stock. I bought the bike paying good money for it knowing I would find lots wrong.
 
Sure enough it had the wrong piston, a shot big end, worn cams and followers, main bearings shot and an inlet valve completely worn out, but the part of the guide inside the port was not even there, so the valve was only running in about 1/2" of guide. One of the engine pushrods was made from a solid 3/8" bar, ground down at each end to fit. The gearbox was of the pre-1926 fine pitch with a pre-1926 clutch fitted. The forks felt good and looked like they had been re bushed, untill I pulled them apart and found 2 or 3 pieces of steel tape measure rule wrapped round each spindle.
 
Thankfully the engine and frame are the correct numbers (the frame is marked 588, indicating a Model 19). I completely rebuild it, fitting new mudguards and exhaust system and repainted the complete bike. Luckily I can do all the work myself and had the bits in stock so that made it worth while.
 
So beware when buying old bikes off old bodgers as they forget what they have done in the past and want top dollar for them; unfortunately, if you want a Vintage bike you just have to pay as not too many of them are around.

1930 Model 22 Norton

Sent by Pa

"A pic of a nice 1930 Model 22 out at the recent Golden Vale Rally in Co. Tipperary Ireland." JdK: Front wheel and forks come from a later model.

1930 Model 18 Norton

A Dutch registration and a very Dutch scenery. The registrations ("H") are from the Amsterdam area ("Zuid-Holland"). The Norton is a 1930 Model 18.

Simon: "What a good photo - interesting to note the tank lining, cast alloy magneto shield and cast alloy primary chain cover. Difficult to see if the latter is two piece (as in '29) or only one piece like Patrick's bike. I had one of the cast alloy magneto covers when I first bought my Model 18 in 1956. The securing bolts fell out as I was riding along the road one day, the cover fell into the road and was promptly squashed by a following truck into a myriad of irreparable pieces.............."

c1930 Model ES2 Norton

Sent by Al

"I previously sent a shot of my grandfathers Norton at Hayling Island on this web site - my uncle just sent these pictures through to me of another Norton. I believe the first shot was taken in Southsea, the second obviously at Lands End; the mystery is who is the girl in the last shot - not my grandmother! I can claim to have an interest in Nortons running in my blood!"

The Norton is a 1929 or 1930 Model ES2 or CS1. TP5676 was issued from Apr. 1924 to Feb. 1931 and would have been issued by Portsmouth County Borough Council (currently Portsmouth).

Stanley Woods, 1930, Model CS1 Norton

By Simon

This one, showing Stanley looking very relaxed, dates from late 1930, I think. It may be the bike he rode to victory in the Ulster of that year - note two stay rear frame and - just about visible - downdraught carb. The man on the right is M. Psalty, the Norton distributor in France. The photo appeared in the VMCC magazine a few years back but this copy came from the Dennis Mansell collection via the late Peter Roydhouse.

Stanley Woods, 1930, Model CS1 Norton

By Simon

Came across this pic recently - it's the admirable Stanley at the 1930 Senior TT  (in which he retired). One can see reasonably well the Best and Lloyd oil feed from the chain feed tank in front of the engine.

1930 valve lifts

By Simon

Regarding a previous blog on the Franks redesign of 1931, hereby some calculations on valve lifts; I freely admit I have not actually measured the lift of a valve in an assembled engine to see if the results achieved by calculations based on the measurements are - more or less - correct and perhaps someone should do so! Anyway, the details noted are:

Open push rod engines (1926 - 1929). Cam followers - contact point with cam 1.63" inches from pivot point; contact with tappet foot 2.037" from pivot point. Thus cam lift is magnified by a factor of 1.249. Rockers - centre of ball end to centre of pivot point 1.329"; centre of pivot point to centre of contact point with valve stem 1.476". Thus tappet lift is magnified by a factor of 1.11. Average cam lift on W7 inlet cam (they all seem to vary a bit) 0.290" so lift at valve is 0,290 x 1.249 x 1.11 = 0.402".

Closed push rod 1930 engines with standard cams (NB; not ES2 cams which have higher lift). Cam followers - contact point with cam 1.87" from pivot point; contact with centre of push rod socket 2.193" from pivot point. Thus cam lift is magnified by a factor of 1.172. Rockers in cast alloy rocker box - centre of ball end to centre of pivot point 1.528"; centre of pivot point to centre of contact point with valve stem 1.5". Thus push rod lift is actually very slightly reduced by a factor of 0.981. Average cam lift on 1930 cams 0.300 inches so lift on valve is 0.300 x 1.172 x 0.981 = 0.345".

The 1930 ES2 cams (marked E2720 and 2721) have substantially greater lift than the 1930 Model 18 type and have the same small base circle. The lift is 0.343" and use of these cams in a 1930 engine will increase the valve lift from 0.345" to 0.394".

I find it interesting that even with the sporty ES2 cams, valve lift on the 1930 engines does not quite match that of the earlier open push rod/W7 engines and there is such a big difference between valve lifts using the standard 1930 cams and the earlier set-up.

The Franks redesign of 1931

By Simon

The Franks redesign which resulted in the 1931 range of production Nortons was not an unmitigated success! I have already mentioned my late friend Jack Bindley's experiences with his new '31 ES2. He was as disappointed with the bike as he was with Norton's response to his complaints. Last week I came across a few back numbers of the Beaulieu magazine 'Veteran and Vintage' and found further criticism therein from Richard Chapman, who worked for Eric Fernihough (amongst other well known people) at Brooklands in the thirties. Richard bought a new 1931 Model 18 from dealers in Trowbridge, to which, after careful running-in, he attached a new TT Hughes sidecar. He goes on to say..

"This machine was the slowest thing on wheels and a great disappointment. With the light TT sidecar and a passenger, the maximum speed was about 50 mph and after a while I rode the machine to Birmingham to see the makers about her. A tester took her for a run round the houses and reported that she was up to standard, which drew from me the comment that their standards must be pretty low! After a lot of postal haggling, Nortons gave me a set of what they described as 'dirt track rockers' (ie cam followers) for the crankcase and these improved matters a little. I then got going on my own and raised the compression. I increased the inlet tract bore, fitted a larger inlet valve and a 10TT25 carburettor. This, with stronger valve springs, rebalancing and some work all over the engine, improved matters. The final result was that I could get 80 mph with a passenger in the sidecar, under reasonable conditions."

Richard must have had considerable tuning skills - doubtless enhanced by later experiences with Fernihough.

The reference to Dirt Track Rockers is intriguing as the dirt track model (above) was only made in 1930 - not '31 - and it would be interesting to know just how the rockers differed from the standard profile. And there is a possibility we can find out: a 1930 dirt track engine bottom end has surfaced in NZ and although rather hacked about, I am encouraging the owner to take it apart and see just what is inside! So watch this space!

The decline actually seems to have started with the 1930 enclosed rocker box set-up. The geometry of this rocker box is such that the valves open less than the lift on the cams while with the open rockers they open more...And why did Norton dowtune these engines? My guess is that they were seeking longer term reliability. What else could it be? From a marketing (doubt if the word had been coined then!) point of view it was perhaps no bad thing to have the OHC machines as real flyers and the over the counter bikes as just reliable moderate performance means of transport.

Tony's 1930 Model CS1 Norton

Not surprisingly, the Norton advertised recently in the magazines has surfaced; it's in Malta and Tony is the lucky owner. It's in very nice condition; the petroltank and 'box are from a later model and I've never seen such an oiltank before but for the rest most of the hard-to-find bits seem to be there. Note the Enfield hubs, the correct girder forks (with later links), the three-stay frame and the left-hand exhaust.

It still has the original engine to frame. It was sent to the agent Psalty, Paris, 11th December 1930. Dyno and foot change were fitted at the factory. Interestingly Tony bought the bike also in Paris 81 years later!

c1930 speedway Norton

Still with the magneto in front of the engine and total loss lubrication but with enclosed rockers. The picture was taken in Wellington, New Zealand in 1930.

Emiel's 1930 Model 18 Norton

Emiel from The Netherlands is restoring a 1930 Model 18 Norton.

C W G Lacey on his 1930 588cc Norton

This picture shows mr Lacey after winning the Wakefield Cup at Brooklands with a winning speed of 108.27 mph, with one lap at 112.42 mph. (From dr Bayley's The Vintage Years at Brooklands)

The machine is a 588cc Carroll-OHC. Not sure if this one would be in the books as a CS1.

Racing 1930 CS1 Nortons in Yorkshire

By Simon

I recently posted two photos of what might have been the same 1930 Racing Norton. One shows Jack Carr, successful MGP competitor and sand racer, and the other Frank Varey, well known Dirt Track rider.

The Varey photo also shows the registration number of WX5232 and I could not resist the temptation of finding out more information from West Yorkshire Archive Centre, where the original registration details and other relevant documents are held.

The photo copies just received show that WX5232 was registered on 28 August 1930 with Frank Varey as the first owner, the dealer – who reserved the number -  having been Alec Jackson of Keighley.  The papers do not show how long Frank retained the machine but by the late thirties, it had come south and numerous other owners in the Greater London area are shown in the Continuation Log Books and other documents held by the Centre. But after 1954, the ‘trail goes cold’ and I assume that perhaps the bike was scrapped or dismantled at around this time.

All of this seems to show that the machine on which Jack Carr is sitting is NOT the same one as WX5232 but another, albeit, identical bike, which he rode in the MGP in 1930 and 1931.

The WX5232 registration particulars gave engine and frame numbers and these in turn led me to the Despatch Records.  Here things seem to have gone awry and I can only assume that some clerical errors occurred in completing the records. The engine number for WX5232 is 49XXX and frame number 42XXX. But in the Despatch Records the machine with engine number 49XXX and the different frame 42YYY was shown as a TT spec. CS1 shipped to Belfast dealer Jimmy Shaw on 18 August 1930.  A further short search revealed that frame number 42XXX  belonged  to another TT spec. CS1 with the slightly earlier engine number 49ZZZ.  This bike is shown as having been despatched to Alec Jackson on 1 August 1930.  Also worth noting is that yet another TT spec. CS1 went to Alec Jackson on 28 August 1930 with engine number 49VVV and frame 42MMM. Exceptionally, no end user is shown for either of the Alec Jackson machines.

The Despatch Records ‘Extra Fittings’ column for these machines shows some interesting information which gives confirmation that ‘over the counter’ TT spec. machines with Carroll engines were sold in the Autumn of 1930 to those with the money to pay for them.  Here it is:

Front (tyre) 27 x 3, Rear (tyre) 3.25 x 27. (modern equivalents are 300 x 21 and 3.25 x 20).  Oil box for primary chain. TT specification.  Specially tuned engine.  ML Magneto (probably the Square ML as used on some of the 1930 Works bikes). Petroflex pipes. Thin rubber twistgrip. G D (George Dance) knee grips, TT large tanks. Oil filler on left. TT foot change (positive stop).  Dunlop saddle. TT brake pedal and footrests.

Marcel's 1930 TT spec CS1 Norton

By Marcel

My CS1 was used on the road in the Netherlands in the 1950s; my uncle Ko Konijn bought it at the end of that decade, probably in quite original condition though at one stage a buddyseat was fitted (the original rubber Dunlop saddle may have been hidden beneath the homemade seat). Ko must have been unhappy with the mechanical condition of the Norton as he completely rebuilt the engine and gearbox, at the same stage sourcing missing parts like the original type of magneto; which must have been a hassle as it took Ko ten years to finish the CS1. 

Ko's health prevented him from riding his bikes and when I became the owner of the CS1 after Ko had passed away it was covered in oil and grease to protect it from the damp conditions in his shed. After cleaning the bike the paint did not look that nice and the Norton was dismantled again and given a fresh paint job. Thereafter the CS1 sat in my living room for more than 10 years.

In the last months the CS1 has had a complete check-over again. New 20" tyres were fitted, the magneto was rewound and many original nuts and bolts sourced. Still not completely finished it started last week for the first time in 40 years!

Simon: "Frame number 422xx was a CS1 to 1930 TT specification. Gearbox number N103, Webb 650 Forks (i.e. CS1 sized). It was despatched on 17/6/30 to Piet van Wijngaarden.  No other details are given. The engine number is very strange and I think must have been added and the original deleted."

Bob from the UK: "I read this blog with great interest, as I have a 1930 CS1 engine which was despatched in June 1930 to van Wijngaarden, and thought for a moment that it might have come from this bike, particularly as Marcel mentions in his story about something being done to the engine number.  However, I have since checked my own records and mine was despatched to van Wijngaarden on 21 June 1930, or 4 days after Marcel's. My frame number was 423xx and the engine number is 49001. I've owned the engine for quite a few years, and its now being re-built to go into an International rolling chassis, as I've given up hope of ever finding a 1930 frame for the engine. These bikes were some of the very first of the Carroll engined machines to be sold to the public, and van Wijngaarden was clearly a favoured Agent to get the new bikes. Marcel, your bike looks as though it will provide you with some good riding opportunities, and hope you enjoy it in the way the maker intended!"

1930 Model 20 Norton - Sold

For sale at Bonhams and their description:

"This Model 20 has been in the vendor's family since it was delivered new in April 1930 and was used by his father - 'The Flying Vicar' - to travel around his parish. Little used after 1950, it was placed in storage before being re-commissioned and used by the vendor from 1960 to 1965. 'VK 1969' was then put into store again, remaining there until 1990 when it was re-commissioned. In regular use since then, it has benefited from a new seat (2005), new pannier boxes (2007) and new mudguards, exhaust pipes and silencers (2008). The machine is described as in generally very good condition and offered with current MoT/tax, NOC dating certificate and Swansea V5C registration document. It should be noted that the Sturmey Archer gearbox, although correctly ratioed, is not original to this machine. Registration no. VK 1969, Frame no. 41529. Engine no. 48139"

JdK: A pity they replaced so many parts as they don't fit really well; headlamp and magdyno come from a younger bike.

Simon: "It was indeed delivered 8/4/30 to the Revd. O McDonald of St John's Vicarage in Newcastle.  Not clear if this was Newcastle up North or Newcastle (under Lyme) in the Midlands - probably  up North.  Frame and engine number agree and it still has the speedo in the tank.  Also has the correct primary chain guard.  Missing the cast alloy magdyno cover (as well as the original magdyno) but not a bad lot. Note the half size oil tank - this was the usual arrangement on dynamo equipped Model 20s."


Note: sold for GBP 12.650

A 1930 CS1 Norton

By Simon

Here are a couple of pics from a 1930 racing spec. CS1 - probably of the same bike as the riders pictured lived quite close to eachother in Yorkshire. The rider in the 'plus fours' and jazzy socks is Frank Varey - a very well known speedway rider in the early thirties - while the other one is Jack Carr, a butcher from Skipton. He finished third in the 1931 Senior MGP, probably on this actual bike. Apart from various IOM visits, Carr was a keen and successful sand racer on an SS100 Brough Superior.

The primary chain oil box can be seen on the front engine plates (like the works bikes) but the front wheel has the standard 8 inch Enfield hub so I am not jumping to the conclusion that it is actually one of the works machines.

For more info follow this link.

Simpson's 1930 Swedish TT winning CS1

From Simon: "Here are a few more photos of this historic machine. The first shows A. Nystrom with it in 1931, the second shows the new owner Rolf Gullick, after it was sold by the Nystrom firm in 1934, while the third shows it receiving some frame surgery in 2002.

This last shot is quite important: here we have a machine of September 1930 with a downdraught head and flange mounted carburetter. I don't think the head comes from a later model. First, Woods' 1930 Ulster GP winner had down draught carburetter and coil springs. Second, because of the 'intermediate' dimensions of cylinder studs, cam box etc. of the early Carroll engines, it was not possible just to fit a later head and/or barrel. One really had to change the whole engine.

Note too the strange gearbox end cover with the unusual (for Sturmey Archer) clutch wihdrawal mechanism. This style of box also appeared in Lacey's '30/'31 Brooklands mounts and was almost certainly still a three speed unit."