Paul's 1925 M18 Norton

An email sent by Paul from Australia:

"This Model 18 I made up from bits so it is circa 1925, but has various other bits. It will do 79 mph but that's all. It's an exciting ride at 79 mph though. I don't do it often but it's good to see 'what'll she do Mister'. 

I put on a mid thirties inlet stub, turned down to length. It also has a 1 1/16" carb. The books tell me that 1920's M18 inlet stubs are 1 1/16", but all the ones I've seen are 1". I cannot get a conrod with a 7/8" small end, but have a machined 16H piston ready for when I do. I also have it geared very tall so under load I have to be listening for engine knock and adjusting the spark advance and throttle accordingly. But when she gets her head up mate, she really goes. I am running 0.008" clearance in the bore as I seized it twice with .006". I have the correct main bearings but they're unbranded, so I dont know how long they'll last. The front hub is a CSI hub. I was given it when I bought my engine.I think that the fellow I bought my engine off thought he'd stitched me up, so he chucked in the hub and a magneto. I'm lucky to get it,but it still doesn't really work. You have to be careful when you lace the rims, or you easily pull it out of round. I've been told that I need linings to be mounted differently to make the trailing shoe work better, so I'll look into this.

Attached is a photo of the Model 18. Not parked. Waiting."

Tony's 1927 Model 25 Norton

Tony from the UK sent these photo's of his stunningly beautiful 1927 Model 25 Norton. The M25 ranks amongst the most desirable flat tank Nortons. It has a highly tuned engine and is equipped with a 'semi-dry sump' lubrication. Note the chamber under the timing chest that contains the oilpump.

"I bought the bike in 1969 from its second owner. The bike was supplied new from Freddie Dixon of Middlesbrough. The first owner only used the bike for a fortnight before having a minor accident with a lady crossing the road on the seafront at Redcar. Dixon took the Norton back and the chap I bought it from owned it from then onwards. The outdoor photos were taken in about 1973 just after I'd restored the bike. The other photo was taken around 10 years ago and currently the Norton is in pieces having some work done but I hope to have it reassembled later this year."

Ossie Braid on his Model 3 1/2 HP Norton

Howard sent this photograph of a gent on an early Norton. The logo on the tank identifies it as a machine built before 1915; the smooth appearance of the crankcase suggests that it dates from after 1912. Before 1915 the Norton models were listed by description and not using the familiar numbering scheme (e.g. Model 7, 8 or 9) and this would thus be a 3 1/2 HP belt drive model. Note the 'gearchange' lever on the tank that operated the Phillipson pulley on the crankshaft.

Howard: "I think it is a pre 1913 model. The "SP" registration number is from Fife, Scotland. No idea who the rider is....bought the photo on eBay. I notice an acetylene generator bolted up on the handlebars so the bike looks to have been on the road and then stripped down for racing. It has a Senspray carburetter fitted. Great looking machine....wish it was in my shed!"

Who can add to the description?

Roger: "The picture is of Ossie Braid on the machine that he rode in the 1914 TT. He was part of the O'Donovan works team and this picture is of the same machine as the gear change handle is taped up as in the 1914 TT pictures. He is in his racing leathers and helmet. I suspect that he used the machine on the road after the TT which is why it is fitted with an acetylene generator. The composition of the picture suggests that it was taken by a professional photographer when he returned home after the race which is why the background is blurred out. "

Further work on LPD1

By Roger Bird

When Ken Boulter restored LPD1 nearly 20 years ago he wished to follow Pat Driscoll's wishes that it should not be over-restored so he made it look well used. The discovery of pictures of Pat's Nortons in his photo album showing bright petrol and oil tanks and an immaculate overall turn out prompted a rethink. Pat's son Chris said that his father stripped down all of his motorcycles at the end of every season and sent them away for annealing. This means that they would have been repainted and rebuilt every year so it was agreed with the Denly, and Driscoll families and Ken that LPD1 should have a facelift with the intention of restoring it to the condition that it would have been at the end of its racing career in the early 30s.

Cleaning and polishing 
Some of the changes would be relatively easy and reversible. As the outfit no longer needs to be road legal the front mudguard and rear stand were removed. From the pictures taken in 1946 it was established that the exhaust system was a light colour as was the rear brake backplate. Stripping the black paint from these showed that the backplate and the exhaust pipe had originally been nickel plated so these were polished after stripping the paint showed that Bert Denly's cans were always left unpainted whereas Pat's were always black. It was decided to polish the can so that it matched the exhaust pipe on the basis that it had been painted 20 years ago and could always be repainted. The rear brake lever and rod were found to have their nickel plating virtually intact so they too were polished. The primary chain guard was removed and polished and after concerns about safety was replaced although they were never used at the time it was raced. Oil pipes; the routing of the oil pipes was changed so that the Pilgrim pump now feeds the two pipes to the timing chest and the manual plunger to the front of the crankcase. Although this is not how it was assembled during the war this is the most likely configuration when the pump was added as it would provide a continuous supply to the cams with a manual top up to the sump. The metering device fitted by Ken was removed as this was not present in this form in 1946.

Rear wheel 
The rear wheel hub and brake drum were found to have been painted black over silver which in turn was painted over the original black stove enamel. The silver paint had been applied very thickly and the heat from the rear brake had blistered it so both of the top coats were removed to reveal the original finish. The shortened gear change lever fitted in 1946 had been made by cutting and welding a well drilled standard plated lever and this too cleaned up well and refitted. The decision on how to treat the rest of the components was a difficult one. It had been thought that the petrol and oil tanks had been dipped in molten solder at the works to give a shiny finish that quickly tarnished.

Oil tank 
When the oil tank was removed it was found that the bottom had been painted only once - in black. Removal of the flaky parts showed that the tank had originally been nickel plated and this explained the very bright finish in the photographs of Pat's machines which first appeared in July 1927. However, the only known pictures of a plated tank were those taken by Pat in 1927 or of Bert during practice runs so it is thought that the tanks were produced by the works immediately after the hour record as they would certainly look smart. None of the publicity pictures show these tanks so it is likely that "marketing" deemed them to be inappropriate as they did not match the ones sold to the public so they were passed to Pat. The KLG badge on the offside of the tank was removed as this too was not shown in the 1946 picture and it was found that it covered a patch of black paint.

Further examination showed that there were three layers of paint - silver on top of black on top of silver. The black had faded on the surface to a mid grey which is likely to be its colour in the 1946 picture. As the tank had originally been plated it was decided to remove all of the paint to reveal that most of the plating on the bottom and rear had survived. The polished finished was lined with black in the style of the late 20s pictures of the team's Nortons. Removal of the paint revealed that the tank had been modified on three separate occasions. The first was to change the position of the filler from the side to the offside front. This appears to have been done by the works as it is very neat. The second was a repair to the threaded boss at the bottom of the tank for the oil feed and the third the cutaway for a different sidecar attachment. The sequence appears to have been carried out in that order as the first coat of silver was added to cover the change in filler position. The black was added to cover the repair to the boss and the cutaway was made up of unplated metal with only black and a silver coat on top. The tank would originally have looked very much like to ones used for the dry sump TT outfit owned by Pat as it has a large capacity (about a gallon) and is fitted with bosses for both take off and return pipes. It is likely that the black paint was applied in 1929 when the Nortons were called Norton Driscoll Specials in the programmes as the picture of Lance Loweth's Norton taken in 1929 with a black tank. By 1930 both Pat and Bert were helping Bill Lacey with his record attempts and as Bill was a works rider Pat's machines reverted to being Nortons with silver tanks.

Petrol tank 
Examination of the petrol tank showed that it too had been plated but as the plating did not seem to have survived, the underside plating had virtually disappeared, it was decided to try to keep as much of the original paint as possible. Examination showed that the plating had been painted silver, then black, then silver again (one very thick coat and a much thinner one) and that a coat of a yellow varnish had been added by Ken to give the appearance of age. Careful removal of the varnish also removed the post-war thin silver paint to give a well used look of three separate coats with bare metal in places so it was decided to leave it like that. The Norton logo showed that there were at least two different types on top of each other. The bottom one was probably applied after the war as it can be seen in the picture of that date and that it is of the mid-30s with the "Regd Trade Mark" letters underneath it. This had been overlaid with a transfer of the earlier type but it had been badly yellowed by the varnish and removal of the varnish also removed the transfer. A logo of the proper type will be added when we know what it should be as there are at least four different styles.

Handlebars 
The painted handlebars were found to have originally been plated, not surprising as this would show up cracks and Bert reported that he had them break on two occasions. The twistgrip has been replaced with a Binks quick action racing twin lever assembly that came from Bert Denly courtesy of his son. The clutch lever was also replaced by one of Bert's from the same source. The arrangement of levers is now similar to that used by Pat with on the left: the clutch, valve lifter, manual oiler and the right the twin carburettor control and front brake.

Forks and front wheel 
Before the front wheel and forks were removed it was noticed that the two top spindles were not parallel. When the link plates had been removed it was discovered that they were of different lengths with one ¼ inch longer than the other. Further inspection showed that there were two long ones and tow short ones but that they had not been properly assembled. The reason for this became clear when it was discovered that the ones stamped Druid Patent were a matched pair but the illustrations showed that they ought to be fitted on the same side of the forks. It is likely that this led to them being improperly assembled during the war and have remained like that ever since. Now that they are correctly assembled the forks are much softer which is not surprising!

The enclosed spring had been painted with a rough matt paint which was removed to show the original stove enamelled which was in good condition. The damper works on part of the cylinder which was left unpainted. The reason for the grease nipple and oiler on top of the enclosure is a mystery as the only area that it would serve is the damper which is the last think that needs lubrication.

There was very thick paint on the forks which turned out to be a thin coat of black on a thick grey paint. This was a mystery until it was realised that a couple of pictures of Pat's machines in 1931/2 showed the forks and frame to be a light colour and certainly not black as in the earlier pictures. As the forks had seen very little use it seems likely that they were only used a couple of times when the machines were painted grey or silver. They were not stove enamelled so after smoothing they were given a coat of black paint.

Ken informed me that the front wheel and brake were from a Raleigh. Some research showed that the 5½ " brake was used on Raleighs from 1923 to 1927 on motorcycles from 250 to 500cc. As Don had worked for Raleigh from 1927 and it is likely that LPD1 was assembled from components found in Pat's shed there might be a connection. Of more significance was the discovery that the brake was fitted to the nearside on the Raleighs which explained why the torque arm was not a good fit on LPD1. Reversing the wheel corrected this and should provide a better action for the lever as it provides more leverage for the trailing shoe.

A shortish run on the completed machine showed that removing the paint from the exhaust system did not get rid of the complaints from the Brooklands residents and that there was little difference to the effectiveness of the front brake - it is still useless. It did however provide bluing of the exhaust pipe showing that it is still a working machine!

1928 16H Norton

An advert for the 1928 16H Norton; note the double barrel silencer and the round oiltank.

1927 M19 Norton outfit

Another contribution by Howard; snapshots and not too much detail but still very nice photo's.

It's a circa 1927 Model 19 outfit. The lining on the tank at first glance suggests a Big Four sidevalve model but the pushrods are clearly visible. The square oiltank indicates that it was built before 1928 while the large 7" front brake suggest 1926-1927.

The petrol tank looks like a long range tank such as fitted to LPD1 in the picture below. Lots of other extra's: the front fork is a braced Webb and I can see a speedometer.

Roger's comments: "The tank on the sidecar outfit is one that was an optional extra for 1927 and was based on the tank that Stanley Woods used to win the 1926 TT. The strap for the steering damper can be made out in one picture. That would date the outfit to 1927 as the tanks proved fragile and were replaced by a saddle tank the following year. The registration is a Reading one and the records had survived but subsequently destroyed. That's a shame as it seems to be a lot earlier than 1927 as it started in 1903."

Geoff's 1928 Model 16H Norton

Sent by Geoff in the UK

Geoff: "Above two pics of my 1928 16H when I bought it in 2006. As you can see it was an oily rag. I only let it go in 2007 because I wanted the Zenith Super Eight a friend was selling and he wouldn't let me have the Zenith unless I swapped the Norton in exchange! For some reason the carb was removed. It now has the correct cylinder as it came with a later barrel and separate head. The friend I sold it to has restored it to his liking (below). I have recently bought it back!

It came from the Isle of Man and the reg no MN 1150 has now been taken off as an Isle of Man number cannot be used in the UK. In the UK we can keep and transfer registration numbers so as I had the number TT 1358 (which I took from a Mini car I had one time) I have put it on the 16H. I have an original 7" Horton front wheel I am going to fit. It has a post war carb and I have a spare B&B carb. that should be OK"

1926 Model 18 Norton

A nice shot of a circa 1926 Model 18.

c1924 Model 18 Norton

A c1924 Model 18 Norton; with a few extra bits and pieces fitted that may have to do with the electric lights? Martin: "The ER numbers were first issued by Cambridgeshire in July 1922, and finished in September 1928 when the VE series started." Simon: "Note the usual Best and Lloyd oil pump but the outlet from it does not go to a Y-piece for dripping onto both inlet and exhaust cams - as later - but just goes to a single union above the exhaust cam..."

1927 16H Norton

The 1927 Norton 16H. Nice bike but no match for the 1928 M18 that followed so she had to go. Well, we're not owners anyway, just keepers, looking after them for a while before they move on. More on Paul's blog.

1923 Model 16H Norton

Sent by David in the UK

David: "I have recently unearthed this Norton 16H. It has been in a shed for the last 30 years and I think it is quite interesting as it has a separate oil tank and a mousetrap carburettor. I have been told it was raced by a Mr Jack Underwood. The bike will be kept in this condition and not restored."

Simon: "The numbers (frame number 65XX and engine number 42XX) match up - albeit the frame number is shown in the Works records as 65XXs. However the info in the records is disappointingly sparse. The model is shown as 16H and the magneto number as 122914, with Brown and Barlow carburetter and 26 x 2 1/2 tyres.  No gearbox number given. On the despatch details page, all that is entered is the 'card number' (I guess this is the works job card or build card for the bike) 3743. At this stage, this situation seems to have been commonplace - on this particular page (the first that exists incidentally) of 19 entries only 10 show the dealers to whom the bikes were sent and no end user details are shown atall. Despatch dates shown for the ten are all in the range November '22 to January '23. All were 16Hs. 


Regarding the 16H, it does look 'later'. I guess yes a 1923 model originally. I think the separate oil tank was fitted to the '23 works bikes and doubtless could be ordered if wanted but perhaps was a later fitment. The tank looks wide for this date. Also note the forks are the posh variety of Druids with the dampers - not fitted as standard. Fitting a mousetrap Binks was the twenties equivalent of the 'go faster' stick-on stripes for cars in the fifties/sixties. But bear in mind that the early twenties 16H could be made to go. Driscoll reckoned his ex works 16H was better by far than the first OHV bike he got! The oil pump is a later fitment too - furthermore it is a Pilgrim and not a Best and Lloyd. 


I don't know of any Jack Underwood though there are a couple of J. Underwoods who were VMCC members in the 1988 VMCC members list - one living in Blandford and the other in Crawley. One of them (the Blandford one) was a member in 1973 but neither in 1960....Judging by the Blandford Underwood's membership number he must have joined the club in the late sixties.  None of this is really much help!"


Martin:"The registration is a Gloucester County Council one issued in 1929, so whatever it did between 1923 and 1929, it did so with another identity.  By 1929, a 16H would have been passe, but as I know from running a 1920 16H, they have a lot more spirit than many early OHVs, and it would still have been a capable performer in 1929."

1928 Model 18 Norton - For sale

For sale at Ron's; not a bargain! Contact Ron directly, the Norton is not on his website.

Grandfather's c1923 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Al in the UK.

"This shot is of my grandfather (who was a great Norton fan who used to visit Brookland regularly pre war) and my grandmother on his Model 18 at Hayling Island, Hampshire sometime in the late 1920's. I wonder if PC 3978 is still around. (JdK: PC 3978 was issued from July 1921 to July 1923 by Surrey C.C. (currently Guildford). It probably is a 1923 model then. Quite sporty, note the narrow mudguards, open primary chaincase and open exhaust). I've been trying to get hold of a flat tank Model 18 for ages similar to his! I'm looking for a flat tank Model 18 - project / box of bits, or what have you ? I have a 1923 Sunbeam 500 sv Sports TT short stroke flat tanker, 100% original for possible exchange; the bike is MOT's and taxed with a rebuilt engine. (below)"

Anyone interested in a swap can contact John

1925 Model 18 - For sale

It's that 1925 M18 again... For sale via this link; asking price 19.500 euro.

Dan O'Donovan on a c1920 Model 16H Norton

Roger:"The registration and the chain drive indicates a post-war event. From the registration and the riding number my best estimate is the 1920 Isle of Man TT where Dan was team manager."

Martin:"The interesting thing about this picture of O'Donovan is that it has a Leicester number. Look at page 62 of the Woollett book (above) and you will see the Norton camp at the 1920 TT. The bike at the front which isn't described in Woollett's caption belonged to Leicester motorcycle dealer Harold Petty and below is an extract of the Leicester county records showing the details of this bike which was finally scrapped in 1934, its last owner having had it attached to a sidecar, a sad end for an ex TT bike! .

Petty retired in the 1920 TT but Nortons did better than ever that year, coming 2, 4, 7, 8. 10, 11, 13 and 14, and four other Norton riders apart from Petty retired. 11th was Norman Black on the last Norton belt drive TT entry, a pretty good effort for his first ever TT ride, the start of a longish TT career through the twenties. The question I would want to ask about this picture is was this a Petty-owned (and hence Leicester registered) bike, and if so, why was O'Donovan riding it? I will get the entry from the Leicester public record office so we can see whose bike it was!! Possibly it was a bike ridden in the 1920  by a rider who retired and maybe D'Donovan rode it before or after the race, as he wasn't a rider himself by that time, his only TT rides being 1913 and 1914."

Update 05 July: I now have the registration data on this machine, and it was actually a 1920 4HP Model 1 (ie a Big Four) not a 16H at all.  That said, the machine pictured looks suspiciously like a 16H as the frame and tank of a Big Four are normally different around the steering head, so the mystery deepens.  What is certain however is that the machine was originally registered to Harold Petty as I suspected, the number dates from 1920 (19 May to be precise) and the machine is frame no 2530, engine no 20328, which is a bit earlier than the 16H Petty rode in the 1920 TT (frame no 2692, engine no 20389). Still no idea why Dan O'Donovan should have been pictured astride the machine, or what the race the number attached refers to...

As with all things to do with Nortons, the more you find out, the more you realise that nothing is as straightforward as it seems.

Petty's dealership was still active in Leicester until it closed in the 1970s.  I found a nice piece about them on another blog...

"At the top end of London Rd was Leicester's own Velocette dealer- Messr's Petty's. Here was a place where time stood still. The cut and thrust of business in the 1970's was not really for them. Customers were addressed as "sir" and the whole manner was more akin to a gents outfitters than a busy motor-cycle shop. Many of us called in on a Saturday afternoon, not to part with money, but to listen to "young" Harold recall the halcyon days of motor cycling. If anyone wished to buy something, Saturday Geoff was summoned, and the part required described in detail. In a scene reminiscent of Grace Brothers "are you being served" he would enquire if Hilda (who had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things Velocette) was "free". She would then fetch the part, place it in a bag for you, issue a till receipt and amend the stock records. 

Meanwhile outside Petty's the entertainment continued, with us teenagers gathering around to watch various motor cyclists following the starting procedure, or ritual, to bring a hot engined Velo into life. It seemed to us that the number of kicks to start a Velo was directly proportional to the number of people watching!! 

Sometime in the 70's Petty's closed, and the names, faces, and genteel procedures passed into motor-cycling folk-lore."

Jeff's 1927 Model 18 Norton

Sent by Jeff is Australia

"Here are some pics of my Norton. As you can see, it's incomplete at this stage."

1928 Model 24 - For sale

For sale at Verralls; a flat tank Norton described as an original 1928 Model 24. I've never seen one before but when the description is correct the dry-sump 588cc engine (!) sitting next to it would originally have been fitted. The 4-speed box is correct for this model. There were a few 588 dry-sump ES2 engines made/sold by Nortons; it is only the differing main shaft diameters which means that standard 588 flywheels can't be used in ES2s so in that respect it could be correct. A very interesting flat tanker with a hefty price tag at £21,500 (for which off course you also get the spare Model 18 engine).

Ian Hatton:"It's a 588cc OHV with the Model 25 type recirculating oiling system. Standard Model 18 engine is presently fitted but I have included a pic of the oil tank to show the return oil line. Obviously the external oil pump is not correct. Also has a four speed cross over gearbox. I believe all these details to be original."

Norton at the 1914 Isle of Man TT

This photo was taken on Ramsey Promenade during the 1914 TT races on the Isle of Man. From left to right: Dan O'Donovan, the Braid Brothers, James Norton and his father sitting inside the sidecar combination. The motorcycles would be TT Model 9's or 3 1/2 HP models while Pa Norton brought his Big Four. This is another pic of Ossie Braid on this very machine.

...same day, same people, except for James' father.

...and looking at the rider's number (59), this must be Dan at the 1914 TT.